Why Jrzjoe on ebay is up to Shifty Business!

Why Jrzjoe on ebay is up to Shifty Business!

Ok it’s time for me to go on another one of my fun rants about people selling whips on ebay.  Well, this specific person I don’t think I’ve ever written about or really given a crap about until last night.  Every now and then I look at the whips being sold on ebay to see if there is anything interesting being sold.

Last  night I found this auction: cache:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stock-man-Bull-Whip-kit-Build-your-own-Bullwhip-/150559781368.

The problem with the auction is not that he’s selling a Peter Jack Whip Kit, but he’s using a picture of mine to sell it!  If you look at the first picture which is of the stock whip on a black table top (that’s also the picture that was used to promote the auction in the search results).

Doesn’t that stock whip look an awful lot like the stock whip I made from a Peter Jack kit that I showed in this post from 8/31/10: http://bullwhips.org/?p=3754 or below:

stockmans whip

Now I’ll admit the pictures aren’t exactly the same because Jrzjoe intentionally cut off the slug with my website at the bottom of the picture!  So it is in fact the same picture only cropped!  That means that not only are they illegally using my image, but they intentionally removed an identifying mark!

Alright now that I’ve established it’s a picture of a whip that I took.  According to US Copyright Laws it’s my picture and I own all rights to it.  Now this is where is copyright can get tricky because if I had used something like flickr to upload it I may have lost some ownership in it.  I don’t know flickr’s policies because I don’t use them, but many online photo sharing websites in their terms and conditions when you check that box you lose some of your exclusivity / rights to your image.  Fortunately for me the only place that picture has ever been published is on my blog.  I 100% own that photo and only I get to decide how it’s used (well technically my wife owns it as well because I live in a community property state).

I contacted Jrzjoe directly and asked him to take it down as well as contacted ebay’s Verified Rights Owner Program to let them know he was illegally using my picture.  Well I guess the system works because ebay not only took down the the picture, they took down the whole auction!

Now a few questions that popped into my head

I was wondering why he was using my photo to sell the Peter Jack Whip Kit.  Surely Peter Jack the maker of the whip kit has a  picture of one of the stock whips.  Or if Jrzjoe makes such great whips, then why would he use a picture of one that I made?

Or why wouldn’t he make one from the kit and use that for a picture to illustrate it and sell the completed whip?

And finally why would you pay $99.85 for a Peter Jack stock whip kit from Jrzjoe when you can get one from Peter Jack for $77 (That’s what I paid when I bought mine) with shipping to the USA included?  That’s a 23% discount from Jrzjoe’s price!

Jrzjoe’s Response to Me After ebay Shut Down his Listing

This morning I got an email from Jrzjoe after ebay closed his listing.  Here’s his email:

Why? I guess if you have a listing that is similar I could have had it removed, since I have this listed for years. Joe

Here’s why he is so dumb and his email to me simply proves it:

“Why?” Umm, because it’s the law?

“I guess if you have a listing that is similar I could have had it removed, since I have this listed for years” Really he’s had it listed for years?  According the the listing it was updated on 4/23/11 and there were no other revisions.  So this listing is just over 8 month old, so by “years” he could be talking about .8 years.  I think if you were to say Point eight years, that would using correct grammar, but he didn’t include the .8 so he’s meaning multiple years.

Ok let’s give Jrzjoe the benefit of the doubt and say he’s had this listing up before and this is a re-listing that took place in April.  Fine…but the picture didn’t exist until 8/30/10 and wasn’t published until the next day, so at most the listing with my image is just over 1 year and 4 months old.  While technically the listing is over a year old I think the average person would agree that calling it “years” would be a bit of a stretch.

The Whip Industry Shouldn’t Tolerate This!

One thing that the entire whip industry (buyers, sellers and makers) should do is not let Jrzjoe or anyone get away with using someone else’s pictures to sell their wares without permission.  There have been at least two “known” whip makers that have used pictures of Joe Strain‘s whips and tried to pass them off as their own.  In both those instances the whip maker has been called out on it and the pictures removed from their sites.

The whip industry is small enough someone like Jrzjoe infringing on my copyrighted image, that’s what they call in marketing Industry Incest and he’s making his gene pool much dumber by engaging in it!

For someone not in the whip industry it’s hard to know who belongs to what, however most whip makers can recognize their own work from a picture.  When I saw my picture on Jrzjoe’s listing the first familiar thing I noticed wasn’t the whip, but the table it was photographed on, then the whip. Whip makers as a whole do a good job of letting each other know when we see someone using a picture of theirs without permission.

What can you as the consumer of whips do?  It’s simple don’t give business to people like Jrzjoe.

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Seriously!!!

Seriously!!!

So it’s been a while since I’ve gone on a little rant about bullwhips being offered on ebay.  Now here’s a bullwhip buying tip (this is just my opinion):

Never buy a bullwhip off ebay that isn’t finished!

Honestly I don’t know why anyone would preorder a whip off ebay from an unknown maker.  Here are a couple of reasons why:

1. Unknown quality of whip: It’s never a good idea to buy a whip sight unseen from someone whose work you haven’t at least seen pictures of!

2. Unknown reliability of seller:  You don’t know if your whip will be delivered on time or at all!

Here’s the whip maker that got me started on this rant:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-ft-16-plt-Kangaroo-Bull-whip-/160661818864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256830cdf0#ht_500wt_1072

Here’s my main issue with this listing…the seller is selling a bullwhip but has a picture of a snake whip in the listing!  Does this mean the person has never made a bullwhip that they have a picture of and can post on the listing?  I don’t know…but would I personally gamble $350 of my own money on it…nope!

The other thing is since this person says they are doing it for “Therapy” why are they waiting for you to buy it and not just making it and selling it after it’s finished?  Making whips is something that I love to do and am passionate about and I make them without having orders.  That’s the way I’ve always done it.  If you want something specific that I’m not currently working on then yes you’ll have to prepay it.  However this seller doesn’t appear to have anything in the pipeline or much past experience since all the bullwhip listings have the same picture of a snake whip.  So this is an attempt to get you to prepay their therapy instead of them paying for their own!

Here’s a good example of making for the love of making bullwhip is that I just made an 8 foot Indy Bullwhip because I enjoy doing it…not because someone paid me to.  I am selling it on my IN STOCK whips page (hint hint).

Oh one other thing that gets me with this auction is the “estimated delivery date” which (for me) shows it at November 17 -18.  That’s over a 5 weeks away from today…but the listing says it’s a 3 week turn around time…hmmmm…once again personally I’m not going to gamble my $350 on a whip that’s delivery date is about a week and a half past the 30 day protection that paypal has.

I’m curious what you think about  this…think I’m right…think I’m wrong…let me know in the comments of this post.

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Tourist Bullwhips…

Tourist Bullwhips…

The other day I was in Virgina City, Nevada which is a “frontier” town.  Several of the shops there sold bullwhips:

These whips really ranged in quality, the lowest quality sold for $2.99.  These are good for making the shopkeeper money and that’s about it!   I was actually in a store when someone was buying two to the crappy ones and the guy mentioned he was getting them for his kids to learn to crack.  He’s going to be very disapp0inted…but then they were only $2.99.

Tomorrow I’m back at home and Tuesday 5/31/11  the 15% off whip sale ends, so it’s your last chance to save on a new whip!

Also I have a 16 plait bullwhip on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/6-ft16-plait-WHITE-kangaroo-bullwhip-bull-whip-Louie-/220790044200

Sometime the first couple of weeks of June I”m going to try to find time to make 6 or 8 Deluxe Beginner’s Bullwhips.  These will probably be 6 feet long.

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Broken In Transition…

Broken In Transition…

I was peeking on ebay to see what whips were being sold and I noticed that someone currently has a Terry Jacka bullwhip for sale.  It’s a 10 foot 12 plait bullwhip and here’s a bit from the description:

Excellent condition.  Cracked only 3-4 times.

You can view the auction  here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Terry-Jacka-Authentic-Australian-Kangaroo-hide-bullwhip-/170589924417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b7f3ac41#ht_877wt_1091

First of all I’m always curious who these people are that buy $800 + bullwhip and only crack it a handful of times.  Based on how the cracker looks in my opinion it’s been cracked more than three or four times…maybe Jacka put an old beat  up cracker on it before he shipped it out (unlikely…but maybe?).

My big issue with the description and I’m going to assume it’s the seller being uneducated about whips but they’ve completely ruined newness of the transition on that bullwhip.  It’s nowhere near in “excellent condition“.  The thing that makes a Jacka bullwhip a Jacka bullwhip is the transistion being soo stiff.  I had my Jacks bullwhip  for about 3 years and it was well broken it, but I couldn’t get it to coil that tight…and mine was only 8 feet, the one for sale is a 10 footer!

The person selling it probably tried to artificially break in the transition (which doesn’t work well on a Jacka bullwhip because they are supposed to stay stiff!) and in the process destroyed an important part of the whip.  If you look at the picture they have a whip holder keeping it coiled tightly, that’s a strong indication for me that they forced it to coil that tightly instead of that happening naturally.

The transition on that bullwhip is supposed to be an extension  of the handle, not a byproduct of the the making process that should be eliminated.  When the seller coiled the whip that tightly and destroyed the handle extension they also ruined the way the whip will flow off the handle.

Personally I’m glad to see that that whip has no bids right now.  The opening bid is $475, but in my opinion it’s worth a lot less due to the broken in transition, really it’s worth in the $250-$300 range and it’s that much simply because it’s a Jacka!

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Bullwhips in progress

Bullwhips in progress

Yesterday I finished the overlay of a six foot bullwhip that I started work on a few weeks ago.  Right now the first coat of shellac is drying.  I’ll take a picture of it later.

29 foot 2 inch bullwhip on ebay

Honestly I’m a bit surprised that people are bidding on the long bullwhip…not because there is anything wrong with it, but because I didn’t think there’d be much market for it.  This whip was something that I made for myself and it is very fun to crack, but honestly I didn’t think anyone would buy it.

So I guess since I’m pretty much a whip nerd, what I think is cool other people will as well!

Extreme Marksmen on History Channel

I was flipping channels last night and came across Meagan from David Morgan’s shop on Extreme Marksmen talking about how a whip is made.  Here’s the clip of DeLongis on the show:

I couldn’t find a clip on youtube with the part filmed at David Morgan’s shop.

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

29 foot bullwhip on ebay

29 foot bullwhip on ebay

I’m cleaning out my closet of one of a kind whips that I made as fun projects and I just listed my 29 foot 2 inch bullwhip on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220619008201#ht_2176wt_943

Here’s a couple of pics of it that I took today:

giant bullwhip
long bullwhip

This was a fun whip to make and learn to crack, but I don’t really use it, it’s just taking up space (a lot of space!).

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Leather Rounder

Leather Rounder

About a week ago I found a leather rounder on ebay and managed to get a great deal on it!  I’ve used it already a couple of times, once on the rawhide hobbles and once for a keychain.

leather rounder
leather rounder

Basically how this works is you put the braid into one of the holes and pull it back and forth and it forms it to a round shape and polishes it up a bit.  I wouldn’t use this on a bullwhip because the braid will need to taper and I don’t think you’ll get as good results as board rolling…but on plaited items with no taper it will work great!

Here’s a key fob I made with some of the scrap from my 20 plait whip:

kangaroo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Know your whips…

Know your whips…

Every now and then I browse ebay to see what kinds of whips people are selling and how much they are selling for.  I found this auction with the headline:  2 All Leather Premium 8′ Bullwhips (to view the auction click here).

Here’s the picture of the whips and the text of the auction:

bullwhips
ALL LEATHER BULLWHIPS ! You get 2 All Leather Premium 8′ Bullwhips !
This package includes two All leather Premium 8′ Bullwhips !
The entire bullwhip is plaited (leather covered).

Here’s my problem with this auction, the line that says, ” The entire bullwhip is plaited (leather covered)“.  I have now idea about the quality of the bullwhips (the could be great, they could be crap) my issue is with the ignorance of the seller…Before I go on my little rant, let me say I’m not the smartest person in the world however I try to be as accurate as possible.

How can you take someone seriously that doesn’t know what they are taking about!!!  Plaited is another word for braided…not necessarily leather covered.  If something has leather  plaited over it, then it is leather covered, but just because it has leather over it doesn’t mean it’s plaited!!

If plaited means leather covered…then what the hell is a 12 plait whip??

That’s like having a computer sales man that’s trying to sell you  laptop, but is calling it a desktop computer because you can put the laptop on a desk!  If that happened you’d probably find another salesperson that knew what they were talking about.

Personally if I was shopping for a whip I’d probably look for a seller that knows what a plait is!

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Don’t Believe the Hype…

Don’t Believe the Hype…

Right now I have a bullwhip for sale on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220495208414), and this morning I was checking out some the other bullwhips that are for sale on ebay.

Honestly I’m surprised at how many of the bullwhips are being sold.  Seller’s on ebay hype the crap out of their bullwhips, now I haven’t tried their bullwhips and I’m going to assume they are fine bullwhips.

For example, someone right now is selling a bullwhip that hasn’t been made and their wait time is 12 weeks!   The problem with ordering from someone one ebay where the wait time is 12 weeks is that paypal only gives you protection for up to 30 days and on ebay I think you have a 90 day window to leave feedback.  So if you end up getting a clunker you have now way to dispute it with the seller.

The same seller also claims his 6 foot whip which sells for $300 takes takes about 150 hours to do!  Now that breaks down to $2 per hour.  Honestly do you think that someone that has spend some time learning a skill and is a craftsman or artist is going to work for $2 per hour?  And that’s $2 per hour is assuming he has no cost of materials…subract another $75 for the materials (that’s a low estimate for material cost) and this whip maker is making $1.50 per hour.  Way below the national minimum wage!  I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing I was hiring someone to do something at a wage soo low.

This seller currently has 7 bullwhips of different lenghts listed on ebay and each description says the whip takes about 150 hours to make.  That’s a red flag because a 6 foot should take a lot less time than a 12 foot.   Lets assume every bullwhip sells this week.  Do you think you’ll get your bullwhip in a timely fashion?  Let’s say the whip maker is working on whips 10 hours a day 7 days a week.  That’s a heavy work week since the average work day in the USA is about 40 hours, and remember they are doing this at $1.50 – $ 2 in wages per hour, it will take 15 days to make your whip.  So if you are the last 6th whip ordered your bullwhip will take longer than 12 weeks to make!!

The seller of this bullwhip also has a picture of  the internal construction of a bullwhip on their listing, but it is incorrect for how they describe their bullwhip.  The picture shows a twisted core, two belly and two bolster.  The bullwhip they sell has 3 bellies and two bolsters and the listing specifically says he doesn’t  use a twisted core…so why show a picture of one???

Remember I’m not saying the bullwhip is bad (or good) because I’ve never handled it, but I think that the description is very misleading and in my opinion downright incorrect.

I guess the moral of this is that before you buy a bullwhip  on ebay, really read the listing and decide if you are paying for hype or a good bullwhip.

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Bullwhip on ebay

Bullwhip on ebay

Yesterday I listed a 6 foot bullwhip for sale on ebay.  It’s a 12 plait kangaroo bullwhip made in the style of the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull bullwhip:

kangaroo bullwhip

Here’s a link to the auction:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220495208414

The bidding started at 99 cents and this bullwhip would normally sell for $407, so this is a good chance to get a great deal on a bullwhip!

Louie
http://bullwhips.org